Reviewing this latest book, The Town That Forgot How to Breathe, made it clear why we need labels such as "CBA".
If I want to be sure I don't read about things that glorify sin or see my savior's name used in vain, I know I can go to the CBA.
I do read outside the CBA. I like Koontz, and others. I loved Stephen King growing up. Now, when I try to read him I end up getting only so far until something I read really bothers me and I lay the book down. I love his skill but not the message usually. I really liked Harvey's writing but the repeated use of Jesus' name as a curse became too much for me.
So, tell me, do you all read outside the CBA? Why or why not? Where do you draw the line on what is too offensive and what is tolerable?
I'd love to hear what you all think about this.
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Tuesday, February 07, 2006
Reading Outside the CBA ~ A Discussion
Good question. I read mainly outside the CBA, somewhere between 80/20 & 90/10. This is no indictment against Christian fiction (I'm proudly peddling my words in the CBA), rather a matter of practicality on the one hand and aesthetics on the other.
ReplyDeleteThe practical reason is this: I work full time, am married to the prettiest girl in the whole wide world, have four kiddos (8 & under), try to stay involved at church, and write fiction in my 'spare' time. So the way I figure it, if a book does not have some direct bearing on my WIP, I simply don't have time for it. And there's just not that many CBA titles out there right now that have that voice or spark or whatever that relates to what I'm trying to do.
The other reason (sure to ruffle someone's feathers, but that's not my intention) is that the titles I prefer to read have a more literary bent. I liken it to someone trying to learn how to play tennis. If your weakness is returning serve. The best way to improve is to spend time on the court with the best darn 'server' you can find (please note that I didn't say or infer 'better player').
As far as what I'm willing to put up with, it just varies from book to book. I find that the more time I spend in The Word, the less I'm affected (negatively) by mere words. I will say that my threshold is probably higher than it should be.
I read a lot outside the CBA. Partly is to keep up with the market and the latest or best-selling books in the genre or style I'm writing in. Partly is for enjoyment.
ReplyDeleteSometimes I balk at foul language, sometimes I don't. It has depended on the book and also how strongly I'm struggling with my own pooty mouth at the time--I used to cuss a lot before I became a Christian. Sex scenes don't bug me at all, but I'm not thrilled when I read them, either.
In general, stuff doesn't bother me and I also usually read with intent--to know the market, or to enjoy a particular author/story. I guess that ups my tolerance level, too.
Camy
I was racking my brain trying to figure out why I had to set that book below down. I think it comes down to if there's one sex scene, I can skip over it and enjoy the book anyway. If every other page is sex scenes it becomes too much to avoid.
ReplyDeleteGod's name in vain is never okay with me, but I've read other books where a character does that and though I hate it, I sigh and keep on. But when there's no getting away from it because it's used repeatedly and often it becomes too much. Like trying to read a bodice ripper and avoiding the sex scenes.
I myself may end up in the ABA yet but would rather emanate Mary Higgins Clark then King when it comes to content if that makes sense.
Great conversation.
ReplyDeleteMy .02.... I know a girl who has discounted an author for one C.S. Lewis quote (non-fiction)in which he quoted directly from the Bible. Yet, I'm shocked at the movies she watches and likes. Go figure.
I hate intense, graphic sex scenes but love forensic scenes, even if graphic. Monsters and supernatural without hope/faith bother me. The F word flung around with abandon bothers me less than cursing the Lord.
This is so personal. We are such snowflakes (unique)- our shapers lead us to our reading and viewing choices and our likes/hates.
I recently ripped Brokeback Mountain on my blog, though I've never seen it. I opposed it on cultural, not aesthetic, grounds. Later I read Jeffrey Overstreet's review on his Looking Closer website. I really love Overstreet's reviews -- intelligent and cultured, without being prudish. Anyway, his review of Brokeback Mountain was a lesson in objective reviewing. I respect him even more after reading it.
ReplyDeleteBottom line -- and you may really wanna check this out -- the first half of the review was a discussion of how Christians should review art. I found it fascinating. More or less, Overstreet said, no matter how morally repulsive or un-christian a movie / book is, we must be able to judge it on its artistics merits (i.e. are the characters realistics, the worldview consistent, the storyline compelling, etc.). Only after that, should we interject our moral/religious concerns.
This book sounds interesting, Gina. But I need to know both things: (1) Is it well-done -- the aesthetic review, and (2) How does it jibe with my Christian beliefs. I'm personally more inclined to read a book that is well-written, than because it expresses Christian virtue. If it can do both, I'm all in.
So, tell me, do you all read outside the CBA? Why or why not? Where do you draw the line on what is too offensive and what is tolerable?
ReplyDeleteI do read outside of CBA. Right now I'm reading a short story collection by one of the best American writers living, John Edgar's God's Gymn. And to be honest I find the most illuminating moments when I read outside of CBA.
Why? Like Mike, I have a natural bent to literary fiction. I want to connect with the heart of a character or an author or our generation when I read and I can't do that with more commercial type stuff, and unfortunately with quite a bit of the CBA titles. I have sixteen CBA books stacked on my chimney, ten in a box beside it and two bookshelves full of reviewed CBA work, galleys nestled under my couches and I can count on one hand all the CBA titles that have praised Selah with me.
But I do believe that soulful writing is coming in more droves and of course, I haven't read every title.
What I do know that there is a christian literary gem that isn't getting the attention it deserves. It is short fiction writings with christian themes. Mike Duran, Mike Snyder, Mick Silva and Mark Bertrand (I need an M in my name)...these guys and girls speak to me. And I wished CBA publishers would do more with short story collections and seek out newer voices that excel in that genre.
Like my mama says, "I like a good story. But can you make it shorter?"
Where do I draw the line...?
If you've read my new blog at gospelfiction.com, yesterday I spoke on a christian novel that I recently reviewed that has a few sex scenes in it. Under my normal reading circumstances I would have returned the book to the bookstore, but since it was an ARC sent to me and I had an obligation with Romantic Times(I could have returned it and given it to another reviewer also, but I am very familiar with this author's works.) So at this point I'm more concerned with the spiritual maturity of some of our authors in our own camp. Because obviously more books like this will follow, if not being ran through the press as we speak.
When I read ABA work I don't expect the author to have the Body in Christ in mind as they tell a story. But I do expect it in CBA.
Now back to your question...my line.
I do not review gangsta/street fiction. I adore crime fiction mainly Chris Well, Walter Moseley, Glenville Lovell. But I don't like street fiction, becaue it isn't written well. The best books that I have read were the Autobiography of Malcolm X and the screenplay for Baby Boy and Hustle & Flow.
I am not a fan of paranormal/vampire tales. Although I adored the Vampire Chronicles, and LA Banks the Vampire Huntress series. See the hypocricy(sp) So my line is really drawn in regards great storytelling. Tell me a great, authentic story and I will give you a fair shake. And disgust doesn't get me either. One of my writing mentors is Chuck Pahlaniuk. Go figure. :)
Almost all of my fiction reading is CBA. It's not that I'm against reading ABA, it's really a matter of my time. I'm writing for the CBA so I want to know the heartbeat of that industry -- what's hot, what's not, etc. And so that's what I'm going to choose if I have to pick one.
ReplyDeleteAnd honestly, another reason I shy from ABA works is along the lines of what you said, Gina -- I try to guard my heart against excessive swearing, gore, and sexual situations. Of course, not all ABA fiction includes these (ie John Grisham & Mary Higgins Clark), but as a general rule it's almost a given there'll be something I would have to skim over.
I love the CBA! And it only gets better and better with each year that passes.
I rarely read outside CBA. Every so often, I'll get this feeling that okay, I need to know what's going on in the ABA market and so I'll listen to what's being recommended and say, that sounds good. I'll try it. And every time I get burned!
ReplyDeleteMy reason for staying away from ABA is the content and worldview. I can't read it and not have it affect me. I compare it to rooting around in a garbage dump. Dig long enough and you'll find something of value, but what kind of condition will you be when you're done? Not to say the ABA is evil, but like someone previously said, it is a personal thing for everyone, and for me, I cannot be unaffected by the ungodly worldview many ABA books preach.
I read mostly non-CBA. It used to be 99/1 percent ABA/CBA. Now it's more like 75/25. The fact is that even with the progress we've made, the scope of what's offered in the CBA, and the quality, just doesn't measure up to ABA. And that's just sheer numbers. There are so many more authors--including Pulitzer winners, Nobel laureates, Booker Prize winners, Edgar and Hugo and Nebula winners, classics, bestsellers--in the ABA, that the choice is astounding.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I'm not easily offended. I happen to be very big on viewing people as they are, and the ABA shows me the minds of non-believers, marginal believers, and believers in genuine, uncensored variety. I like that. If I read a book by a non-believer, I don't expect it to be free of cussing or sex or gore. That's not their moral code. I do expect it to reflect WHO THEY ARE AS HUMAN BEINGS, and that's always fascinating to me. What is in the minds of people UNLIKE ME.
Granted, I also like reading the minds of people a lot more like me. BUT..my favorite genre is SF/F, and the CBA has mighty slim pickings in that arena. I have no choice but to go to the ABA. AND, one of my favorite things above all to read is poetry. Until I discovered some wonderful poets through IMAGE journal, all my Family Bookstore had was--blech--Helen Steiner Rice. I'd rather poke my eyes out.
So, that's why the ABA gets more of my dollars: variety, scope, quality, quantity, and a bit more realistic global human experience than CBA.
Mir
http://mirathon.blogspot.com
Okay, I'm totally on the opposite side of the fence. I read more ABA than CBA. Matter of fact, the titles I read in the CBA don't even count as much of a percentage. Now, before you beat me up, let me explain.
ReplyDeleteI read for enjoyment. I want to be told a story that will make me escape reality for a little while. I have entirely too much real life as it is. But I have odd tastes. I like scary movies, books, and anything else which can make me hold my breath. I love King...and I even love his underlying messages in the majority of his books. But I realize I'm lucky that I have a friend who is a friend of his and Tabitha's, so I get the "inside scoop" on some of the underlying issues woven into the story. But, back to my point. Wait...did I have one? Oh yeah. Language doesn't bother me. Why? Because it doesn't. I see a lot of people say "darn" or "fiddlesticks" when they're mad, hurt or scared...now, if they're said with a certain "tone", I personally believe the sentiment and mood is the exact same as if you'd said a "cuss" word. That's just me. Sex scenes don't bother me. I normally see humor in them. Maybe because I'm happily married (have been for 18 years) and I get a healthy dose of real, lasting love. So, reading it, hearing it, seeing it in movies doesn't phase me. But each person is different. Each person has their own level of tolerance. Each has their own conviction which comes from their relationship with Jesus. And as christians, we shouldn't hold other christians to OUR beliefs, our convictions. Because people, the Holy Spirit moves in each of us, differently, for the purposes God has for us, as individual children of His kingdom.
That's probably more than 2 cents worth, but that's my opinion!
I tend to think along the lines of C.J., Sally, and Cara. I think Christians have a greater responsibility than nonChristians as to reading material, movies, magazines, etc. The Bibles says, "Shun the appearance of evil." It's not because God wants to deny us pleasure; it's because He wants to enhance our pleasure.
ReplyDeleteSomething to think about as you choose your reading material: the lesson of the frog. Every time the cook put the frog in the boiling water, it jumped out. So she put it in cold water and gradually heated it up, and the frog was caught unawares and died.
It's not good, in my opinion, to immerse yourself in unholy things. The unholy things can take root in your spirit. But perhaps worse than that, is they desensitize you. DESENSITIZE YOU. Important enough to cap. You read something, and then next time you read something a little darker, and then it's darker and darker and darker. The line blurs.
I guess I am saying this about this discussion because I'm a pastor's wife and guardian of people's souls. I've seen so much evil and helped so many people.
Let God be your guide. The Bible says He will give you wisdom if you ask. It also says to guard your heart.
currently the only ABA books I've been reading are those of a clients.
ReplyDeleteI have an idea and would love for everyone to play along...
ReplyDeleteThankfully, this conversation has remained on the high road. No one seems to be promoting a strict either/or mandate, but rather a way to enjoy great art without the threat of bumping into vulgarities, etc.
There's plenty of material that 'bridges the gap', so to speak. So why don't we make a list?
CBA -
-Anything by Lisa Samson
-River Rising by Athol Dickson
-Dale Cramer books
ABA-
-Gilead by Marilyn Robinson
-Peace Like A River by Leif Enger
-Secret Life of Bees by Sue Monk Kidd
-Anything by Chaim Potok
-A Gathering of Old Men or A Lesson Before Dying by Ernest Gaines
-Emporer of Ocean Park by Stephen L. Carter
Okay, that's just a few off the top of my head.
Anybody else?
Great discussion. I'm with CJ. The CBA is so good these days I don't much need to go outside of it to find excellent material. Peretti's Monster, Dekker's Showdown, Liparulo's Comes A Horseman...Francine Rivers and the list goes on and on.
ReplyDeleteI'm not as well read as I could be but I'm trying.
I agree Chaim Potok was an excellent read and clean. Koontz is benign, I don't have a great list off the top of my head but I love the idea of sharing great, clean reads when we find them. Thanks Mike for the idea.
CBA-
ReplyDelete-Shoofly Pie & Chop Shop by Tim Downs
-Three by Ted Dekker
-Forgiving Solomon Long by Chris Well
You mentioned Monster, Gina ... Oh, man. I just finished the audio unabridged version where Frank reads all the voices (quite well in fact), and I was totally amazed. What a great story! I haven't stopped thinking about it. Folks, you have to pick this one up whether you're a Peretti fan or not. In fact, it's unlike any Peretti you've ever read before, and yet it's all Peretti. This one was actually the less "spiritual" of all his other novels, in my opinion. It was just a darn good story about real people facing extraordinary experiences. I suppose it could offend those who support Darwinism. Can I repeat myself? It's a fantastic read.
A little plugging never hurt anyone, right? :-)
Gina, I just discovered your great site here and love it. CJ, I'll have to take that recommendation and pick up Monster soon. Love Peretti but haven't kept up with his latest works.
ReplyDeletePrimarily, I've only written nonfiction, but looking now to start a novel. I realize I have lots to learn but also a huge story to tell.
Thanks! I'll be back.
Excellent, Vicki. And if you weren't intrigued before, here's one word to those interested: Sasquatch. That's all I'm going to say!
ReplyDeleteHey Vickie, you're a nurse? Cool, me too (welcome!)
ReplyDeleteCJ, I thought Monster was so quirky, I loved it. Imagine one of us pitching that story premise to an editor at a conference though. Hah. I thought the looks I got were rough pitching a female exorcist.
He pulled it off though!
I know! I kept thinking, "How DOES he come up with this stuff?"
ReplyDeleteI keep running into this problem, too. I loved King for many years, but it's been tough to get past the language lately. Even some cozy mystery writers I like have protags living with their boyriends or girlfriends. It's the way that sin is being portrayed as the normal way of life. To me, the CBA is a safe haven. I know I won't be insulted when I go there. And now there are so many good authors (including us!) that we may not need the ABA at all soon. I still read the best-sellers to see what is considered break-out fiction, but it's gettng harder to justify, and I really think that it has a negative effect on my faith, especially where sexual sin comes into play.
ReplyDeleteWell, my $.02 is this: if the writer uses too much foul language, I figure he's a lazy writer and can't think of any other words. Some writers think it's only about titillation to the detriment of the story. I like some ABA books, but it's really hard to find one that is "G" rated. Maybe we need a rating system for books. ;)
ReplyDeleteRight now it's CBA fiction and that's mainly due to time constraints. I've started reading Koontz and want to read several mentioned by Michael S, both CBA and ABA. So my wish list at Amazon continues to grow...:-0
ReplyDeleteMonster was OK, considering I blew the whole book before the first page. I never read the acknowledgments, but scanned them for some unknown reason this time and there was some mention of genetics or something along those lines and I knew right then what the premise was because it was similiar to a book I had read years and years (OK, you can stop adding 'years' now) ago.
Hmmmphhh. Who knew the acknowledgments were so lethal? :-0 Author beware....
I have to second Michael S's mention of River Rising. Outstanding book. Parts of it still give me chills. In a good way. :-)
I used to read strictly ABA. Now I read mostly CBA. There are a few ABA authors that I stay loyal to, but otherwise I choose CBA to enjoy the books and to get a feel for what's out there.
ReplyDeleteGreat discussion, Gina!
Hey, Gina! Found this site and was so happy to find an inspirational blog out there in the blogsphere! I, also, loved Monster! I have liked everything I have read by Peretti. I do read different genres, but if a book has too much graphic language or sex, I usually have to put it down, although I am not a prude by no means. I just like well written stories!
ReplyDeleteThanks for a wonderful site!
I read about 50/50... in ABA I like Clive Cussler, Nelson DeMille,and Tom Claney...I don't have time for any more ABA's cause in CBA, I have Brandilynn Collins, Alton Gansky, Robert Liparulo, Ted Dekker, Frank Peretti and now Chris Well....my plate is full!
ReplyDeleteWelcome, Sandy! Glad to have you.
ReplyDeleteYeah, for me, I'm absolutely for reading ABA or CBA so long as the story is good, it's well written and doesn't compromise my spiritual life.
With books like "Comes A Horseman", Treason, Dead of Night, The Last Sin Eater, and too many others to name, I'm finding it harder to justify going to ABA. I just don't need to. Not that I won't if something catches my eye and word of mouth is good, but the CBA has got it all. Thanks everyone. This was great for getting us all really looking at what we're taking in.
Coming to the discussion late (as usual) - I too read almost entirely in the CBA. It's safer, and has grown so much in excellence and quantity that I don't need to sift through and find the kernels of wheat in ABA. One other point - I love promoting CBA authors, many of whom I know through online forums and blogs. I'd rather review and point others to books by CBA authors.
ReplyDeleteSorry, I can't allow anyone else to snag "tardiest" award. It's my domain.
ReplyDeleteI found it extremely interesting that every single person mentioned current authors. When I'm looking to curl up, I never hit the "New Release" shelf. Perhaps because I don't read to keep up with the market. I read most often to find truth, to regain joy, to glimpse beauty, to heal. Like going to the museum to look at the paintings. Or listening to Bach. Occasionally, I plunge into fun stuff like Agatha Christie, but for the most part, it's Dickinson, Sayers, L'Engle, Alcott, Lewis, Montgomery.
Am I a sport?
Noel
I do read outside the CBA however, like yourself, I find things a little offensive at times. I think it boils down how deep your personal relationship with Christ is. The deeper and more intimate your relationship the less you find pleasure in things that were once easy to participate in.
ReplyDeleteI like to read clean and wholesome and now that there are so many wonderful genres within the CBA - one can find great reading in the area they love without the "hard to swallow".
Hey, my beautiful and talented friend cindy stopped by! And Noel, choke, gulp. Noel, I am squinting at you. As our own Duran recently coined it's mental squinting. Thanks for the comments everyone!
ReplyDeleteI find myself reading less and less of the ABA books. There are a few series in the secular market, however, that I still read. They are the ones that hooked me a while ago, that are still enjoyable, and that don't have material that is too offensive for me to ignore.
ReplyDeleteEarlene Fowler has a wonderful series, The Benni Harper Series, and all the books are titled after quilt patterns. What I love about her series is that the characters are round, well-fleshed people who change and grow over time. The mysteries are engaging and exciting. I also truly appreciate that her protagonist is a Christian - no proselytizing, but she and her family members are involved in their church and scenes are often set there.
I love the Carol O'Connell "Mallory" series just because it is incredible well-written. I find myself re-reading paragraphs and pages - not because I got bored and lost my place - not because she's so abstruse I can't understand her - but because she writes so eloquently.
The rule of thumb for me has become what I would be willing to share with my son. That leaves out the sex, some language, and because he's quite a discerning reader, anything that lacks content, voice, or fluency.
A note on the earlier well-made comments about Brokeback Mountain... When Christians do watch films like that one, or read books that contain that kind of salacious material, I hope that they do speak out. When I first read about that film, I thought to myself, "How sad that these two men, living outside of God's will, have made their lives so miserable." I was partly shocked, partly amused to find so many people view the film and blame society for the unhappiness of the two characters. If we state our position, without being unnecessarily harsh, we can be a powerful witness.
99% ABA. And that's all I have to say!
ReplyDelete